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Talk:Clarissa the Defender of the Grove
Portal Clarissa and some other NPCs are at the Nature Tower in the depths of the Western Deadlands. However, they are currently listed in Kion which is very wrong. The consensus tonight on the market channel is that Heather or Dryart is the way to get there, but of course they really shouldn't be listed as NPCs in either location. We could add a location property (which defaults to the port value) but can be overridden when needed and use that when listing NPCs in a location. Then we can separate the port to location from where we want to describe the NPC (and which location page the NPC is listed on). --Swordmage 06:39, January 25, 2010 (UTC) I agree. Probably best to add a "closestport" semantic property or something like that. A lot of the semantic lists are based on the "port" property (quests per location, NPCs per location, etc), so if we change "port" to "location" in the template display and then add "closestport" to the templates, that should achieve the same thing. I would prefer to rename "port" to something else, but I'm worried about what the effect would be on the semantic stuff. Plus it would take an enormous amount of work (1000s of pages) to change all the property references - that thing is used everywhere :) So in summary: # leave semantic property "port" as is, but change the templates so it displays "location" instead of "port via" # add a new semantic property "closestport" to templates, and use this to display the best port for players to travel via Will this work? Not the best solution, but might be the safe way to go. I can't find anything on doing REDIRECTs for semantic properties, so I don't this that is an option either. I could also do a mass-extract, global replace, then mass-upload, but again I've got concerns about doing that too. Sledgehammer for a walnut approach :) Also for gatekeeper NPCs, closest port might be used to signify that if you haven't attuned what the best way to travel is? Not sure about that one. StalePopcorn 07:37, January 25, 2010 (UTC) :Yes, we could turn it around so that the port property is really location and labeled as such in the NPC template and the various tables (good excuse to make some more table templates). I am not sure we really need the notion of nearest port very often; it certainly makes sense in the description of a location and for gatekeepers, but for most NPCs, I think one wants to know where they are, not where one needs to run from--so does it really need to be a property? :For gatekeepers and locations, we probably need some text that describes where they are relative to several standard locations (for instance, "Parsinia is on the west shore of Lesser Aradoth between Kion and Sslanis and the safest way to get to it is to follow the beach south from the western gate of Kion"). :I just noticed that there are some NPC pages (e.g., Adn Sereng) already using the port property as location so we have been anticipated. --Swordmage 07:59, January 25, 2010 (UTC) You are quite right - doesn't need to be a property, there isn't really any need to search on "show me NPCs that are closest to port xyz". So in that case just a template parameter, but not used as a semantic property? Adn is set up that way because they weren't at a specific "location" (i.e. in the wilderness somewhere) so port via was the best way to handle it. StalePopcorn 09:53, January 25, 2010 (UTC) : Adn Sereng is in the same location as Clarissa the Defender of the Grove and is handled the way we are talking about, which is why i mentioned that page. The Tower of Nature is a specific location within the Western Deadlands and seems to be a quest hub, it just doesn't have a local portal pad, which is the problem. It will be useful to be able to add lists of NPCs and quests to the page. : So to summarize: we will be changing the text of the NPC Summary and Quest Summary templates to "Location" from "Port via", changing the headings in tables that list the "Port" to "Location" (templating them as needed), and updating the value of the port property on NPCs as we find ones that need to change; adding Urban Summary, UrbanNPCs, and UrbanQuests templates to more location pages. Is this about it? --Swordmage 17:24, January 25, 2010 (UTC) Yep, that sounds spot on! LMK when you are happy with a format, and I'll copy that for other pages to help out. StalePopcorn 22:26, January 25, 2010 (UTC) : I got things started (I made a small detour thinking I could make a location property as a duplicate and eventual replacement property until I hit the Quest Summary template). I got all the school pages and most of the location pages that have built in tables, converting them to templates and expanding the templates when the were missing data I was replacing. : It dawned on my as I was working through all the pages that set port looking for port values I hadn't touched that I needed to add Creature and Named Creature tables to the UrbanNPC template (e.g., New Trismus) -- it might make sense to have put the Named Creature before Creature table. : At this point I think I have picked off the low hanging fruit (as they say) and we will need to watch for pages that still have "Port" as a column heading in a Semantic table. :This uncovered a need to go through all the locations and categorize them properly (City, Settlement, Guild Town, ...) and decide whether they should be in both Category:Locations and the sub-category (e.g., Category:Settlement). They will also need to have Urban Summary templates added as well as the NPC and Quest templates (I only added these to the few for which I found current things pointing to). --Swordmage 01:39, January 26, 2010 (UTC)